Stari zavjet
Postanak 1;1
„U početku stvori Bog nebo i zemlju.“
U biblijskom
hebrejskom, imenice znaju biti u množini iako je potpuno jasno da nisu takve u
značenju. Poput, chayim (chayeem,
"life") i panim (paneem, "face",
"presence", "countenance"). Množina po obliku ali jednina po značenju.
Equally striking is the fact that the same term, elohim,
is used of the individual false gods of
What we need to know is how the Hebrew word elohim (and its variations of el and eloah) are used in the Bible, and if this has any application to John 20:28. The Bible uses these words in many different ways, in applications to men, angels, and even inanimate objects. Thomas, being a Hebrew was no doubt aware of this. EL signifies strong or powerful. This word is Hebrew #410 in Strong's Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary, which defines it as: "short. from 352; strength; as adj. mighty; espec. the Almighty (but used also of any deity)." Crosswalk's Online Hebrew Lexicon defines it similarly: "shortened from 0352 TWOT - 93a n m ; AV - God 213, god 16, power 4, mighty 5, goodly 1, great 1, idols 1, Immanuel + 06005 2, might 1, strong 1; 245; 1) god, god-like one, mighty one; 1a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes; 1b) angels; 1c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations); 1d) God, the one true God, Jehovah; 2) mighty things in nature; 3) strength, power".
Other authorities give it the same or similar meanings. Consequently it is applicable to any powerful being and especially so the most powerful - the Almighty Yahweh, and is thus used in relative terms applicable to those whom or what it is being applied. That the word is thus used may be readily seen by anyone who will carefully note the following texts from the King James Version, in which English translations of the Hebrew word El are in denoted by *..*: "It is in the *power* of my hand." (Genesis 31:29) "There shall be no *might* in thine hand." (Deuteronomy 28:32) "Neither is it in our *power*." (Nehemiah 5:5) "Like the *great* mountains." (Psalm 36:6) "In the *power* of thine hand to do it." (Proverbs 3:27) "Pray unto *a god* [mighty one] that cannot save." (Isaiah 45:20) "Who among the sons of the *mighty*." (Psalm 89:6) "God standeth in the congregation of the *mighty*." (Psalm 82:1) "Who is like unto thee, O Lord [Yahweh] among the *Gods* [mighty ones or ruling ones]?" (Exodus 15:11) "Give unto the Lord [Yahweh] of ye *mighty*." (Psalm 29:1) "The mighty *God* [ruler] even the Lord [Yahweh]." (Psalm 50:1).
Angels as Gods
(Ps 8:5) You also proceeded to make him a little less than godlike ones [Heb: elohim], And with glory and splendor you then crowned him.
Brenton's LXX: Psalm 8:5 Thou madest him a little less than angels, thou hast crowned him with glory and honour;
New Revised Standard: Deuteronomy 32:43 Praise, O heavens, his people, worship him, all you gods! For he will avenge the blood of his children, and take vengeance on his adversaries; he will repay those who hate him, and cleanse the land for his people.
Brenton's LXX: Deuteronomy 32:43 Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him; rejoice ye Gentiles, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him; for he will avenge the blood of his sons, and he will render vengeance, and recompense justice to his enemies, and will reward them that hate him; and the Lord shall purge the land of his people.
Once again, the author of Hebrews confirmed this understanding when he quoted it at Hebrews 1:6: (Heb 1:6) But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: "And let all God's angels do obeisance to him."
(Ps 97:7) Let all those serving any carved image be ashamed, Those who are making their boast in valueless gods. Bow down to him, all you gods.
Brenton's LXX: Psalm 96:7 Let all that worship graven images be ashamed, who boast of their idols; worship him, all ye his angels.
(Ps 138:1) I shall laud you with all my heart. In front of other gods I shall make melody to you.
Brenton's LXX: Psalm 137:1 I will give thee thanks, O Lord, with my whole heart; and I will sing psalms to thee before the angels; for thou hast heard all the words of my mouth.
(De 10:17) For YHWH your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty and fear-inspiring, who treats none with partiality nor accepts a bribe,
(Ps 136:2) Give thanks to the God of the gods: For his loving-kindness is to time indefinite;
Origen quoted Psalm 136:2 and gave the following commentary. Note the understanding of "gods:" God on the one hand is Very God (Autotheos, God of himself); and so the Savior says in His prayer to the Father, "That they may know Thee the only true God;" but that all beyond the Very God is made God by participation in His divinity, and is not to be called simply God (or, god, without the article), but rather God (or, God, with the article). And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with God, and to attract to Himself divinity is a being of more exalted rank than the other gods beside Him, of whom God is the God, as it is written, "The God of gods, the Lord [YHWH], hath spoken and called the earth." [Ps. 136:2] It was by the offices of the first-born that they became gods, for they drew from God in generous measure that they should be made gods, and He communicated it to them according to his own bounty. The true God, then, is "The God," and those who are formed after him are gods, images, as it were, of Him the prototype." -Origen, Commentary on John, Ante Nicene Fathers 10, Book 2, p. 323.
(Ps 82:1,6) God is stationing himself in the assembly of the Divine One; In the middle of the gods he judges: 6 "I myself have said, 'You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.
Humans as Gods
(Ex 4:16) And he must speak for you to the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God to him.
(Ex 7:1) Consequently YHWH said to Moses: "See, I have made you God to Phar'aoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet.
Messianic king in Psalms 45:6 (verse 7 in the Hebrew Bible) are each referred to as elohim
Finally, the Septuagint (known as "LXX"), the Greek version of the Hebrew Bible (probably translated in the third and second century B.C.E.) ALWAYS translated the Hebrew word for God in the singular (Gr. theos). The LXX version of the Old Testament is often cited in the New Testament instead of the Hebrew.
False Gods
(1Sa 5:7) And the men of Ash'dod came to see that it was so, and they said: "Do not let the ark of the God of Israel dwell with us, because his hand has been hard against us and against Da'gon our god."
(1Ki 11:5) And Sol'o·mon began going after Ash'to·reth the goddess of the Si·do'ni·ans and after Mil'com the disgusting thing of the Am'mon·ites.
(Da 1:2) In time YHWH gave into his hand Je·hoi'a·kim the king of Judah and a part of the utensils of the house of the [true] God, so that he brought them to the land of Shi'nar to the house of his god; and the utensils he brought to the treasure-house of his god [Marduk].
YHWH and Others Collectively Called Gods
(Ps 86:8) There is none like you among the gods, O YHWH, Neither are there any works like yours.
(Ex 18:11) Now I do know that YHWH is greater than all the [other] gods by reason of this affair in which they acted presumptuously against them."
(Ex 22:20) "One who sacrifices to any gods but YHWH alone is to be devoted to destruction.
The word is thus acknowledged as being plural here, and in Exodus 22:8-9, by its translation as judges, but the word used is elohim.
As a final proof, note the Messianic 22nd Psalm. I will quote from only a portion of this Psalm which, when read using common sense, CLEARLY shows that Yahshua (the prophetic focus of this Psalm) refers to God (Elohim and El) as HIS God (Elohim). I will include in parenthesis the Hebrew word translated as "God."
Psalm 22:1,2,10
1
My God (El), my God (El), why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of
my roaring? 2 O my God (Elohim), I cry in the daytime, but
thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent. ... 10
I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God (El) from my
mother's belly.
The King James Version, (
This single quote from Psalms - and there are other Messianic verses which present the same proof - PROVES that Yahshua is NOT God (Elohim), since he (Yahshua) refers to the ONE, True God as HIS Elohim! Verse 10 also proves how Yahshua worshipped the same God we should worship from his birth! Thus, since Yahshua very clearly referred to the God HE WORSHIPPED as Elohim, the term Elohim cannot possibly refer to Yahshua in the sense of making him God!
Exodus 21:6, "then his master shall bring him unto God ["judges" New International Version]"
Exodus 22:8, " If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall come near unto God ["judges" New International Version], to see whether he have not put his hand unto his neighbor's goods."
Exodus 22:28: New American Bible "You shall not revile God, nor curse a prince of
your people."
New
1 Samuel 2:25 "If one man sin against
another, God shall judge him" ASV
"If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him"
KJV
Psalm 45:6, "Thy throne [King Solomon], O God ["the Messianic king", Brown Driver &Briggs], is for ever and ever: A sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
Psalm 58:1 "Do ye indeed speak
righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge
uprightly, O ye sons of men?" King James
"Do you indeed speak righteousness, O gods? Do you judge
uprightly, O sons of men?" New American Standard
Psalm 82:1, "God standeth in the
congregation of God; He judgeth among the gods."
Check out the cross-references of the following Bibles, as they point between
Psalm 82:1 and the human judges in Exodus:
The Interpreters Bible Psalm 82:1>Ex. 21:6; 22:8, 9; 1 Sam 2:25
New American Standard Bible-Zondervan Study Bible Psalm 82:1>Ex. 21:6; 22:8,
28
NASB Reference Edition Psalm 82:1>Ex. 21:6; 22:8, 28
Dake's Annotated Study Bible KJV Psalm 82:1>Ex. 7:1; 21:6; 22:8, 28 (with
footnote, "Heb. elohim, Gods. It is used of earthly judges who represent
him.")
New International Version Study Bible ftn, Psalm 82:1>Ex. 21:6; 22:8
Companion Bible KJV Psalm 82:1>Ex. 21:6; 22:8, 28 (with footnote,
"gods, Elohim: used of earthly judges as representing Him...Hence Moses is
so spoken.")
Psalms 8:5 calls these angels gods, which can be seen by
perusing different translations utilizing various source texts.
"Thou hast made him a little lower than the
angels, and hast crowned him with glory and splendour." Darby, KJV
"a little lower than the gods." Bible in
Basic English
"a little less than a god" New English Bible, New Jerusalem Bible,
New American Bible
"a little lower than the heavenly beings" New International Version
"a little lower than God" New American Standard Bible
"you have made him inferior to yourself" Good News Bible (TEV)
Whatever our understanding of the use of Elohim here, it was clearly understood
to refer to angels:
“You have made him a little lower than the angels.” NASB, RSV, MKJV Hebrews 2:7
Psalms 97:7 has “Worship him, all ye gods” (ASV)
while the Septuagint has “worship him, all ye his angels [AGGELOI}.” Brenton
Psalms 138:1 has “Before the gods will I sing praises unto thee” (ASV) while
the Septuagint has “I will sing psalms to thee before the angels [AGGELWN].”
Brenton
Postanak 1;26
„I reče Bog: "Načinimo čovjeka na svoju sliku, sebi slična, da bude gospodar ribama morskim, pticama nebeskim i stoci - svoj zemlji - i svim gmizavcima što puze po zemlji!"
"I reče
Elohim..."
a) Doslovno;
"I reče Bogovi". Da li je riječ o skupini Bogova? O zajednici više
Bogova koji čine jednog Boga? Ili je riječ o
b) jednom Bogu
koji se obraća Svome Sinu koji je napravljen na Njegovu sliku i čiji je odsjaj
i otisak?
c) Ako čovjek
uopće može biti sličan Bogu, da li to znači da je čovjek u trinitarističkom
shvaćanju također trojedina osoba kao i Bog?
d) Možda se Bog
obraća i svojim anđelima koji su time što su duhovna bića kao i Bog, i imaju
određene karakteristike koje im je Bog darovao, slični Njemu? Poput, Job 1;6
"Jednog dana dođu sinovi Božji da stanu pred Jahvu a među njima pristupi i
Satan", Job 2;1 "Jednoga dana dođu opet sinovi Božji da stanu pred
Jahvu a među njima pristupi i Satan", gdje usput vidimo i komunikaciju
između Boga i Sotone. Što je malo neobično, s obzirom da Jahve ne trpi zlo u
svojoj blizini. No...vezano uz temu, moguće je da se Bog obraća i njima. Dok se
ne dokaže suprotno. Job 38;4-7 "Gdje si bio kad zemlju utemeljih...dok su
klicale zvijezde jutarnje i Božji dvorani uzvikivali?" Mnoda duhovna bića
su postojala dok je Bog stvarao zemlju i Adama.
e) Možda Bog
govori o sebi upotrebljavajući kraljevsko "Mi/Vi"?
Ez 4;18 "“The king sent this reply: Greetings. The letter you sent us has been read and translated…” Obavijest je poslana kralju koji odgovara u množini.
The name of God is not the only word that is pluralized for emphasis (although when the plural does not seem to be good grammar, the translators usually ignore the Hebrew plural and translate it as a singular, so it can be hard to spot in most English versions).
After Cain murdered
Abel, God said to Cain, “the voice of your brother’s bloods cries to me
from the ground” (Gen. 4:10). The
plural emphasizes the horror of the act.
In Genesis 19:11, the men of
Postanak 2;24
„Stoga će čovjek ostaviti oca i majku da prione uza svoju ženu i bit će njih dvoje jedno tijelo.“
Postanak 11;7
„Hajde da siđemo
i jezik im pobrkamo, da jedan drugome govora ne razumije."”
a) Ako Jahve
doslovno "silazi na zemlju, "dolje"", onda je očito da
Jahve nije sveprisutan Bog. Ako mora sići, to očito znači da nije prisutan na
mjestu na koje mora sići.
b) Ako je Jahve
doslovno sišao na zemlju, onda je to lijep primjer kako svepristutni Bog i nije
tako sveprisutan ako ga ljudsko tijelo može obuhvatiti, tj. Jahve nije tako
beskonačno velik i neobuhvatljiv.
c) Ako Bog
doslovno silazi, i po množini i trinitarističkoj logici vidimo da silaze
"oni", tj. osobe trojstva, tko za to vrijeme ostaje beskonačno veliki
i neobuhvatljivi Bog, na nebu, i upravlja svemirom? Božji namjesnik? Božji
zamjenik? S obzirom da Bog mora sići da bi bio negdje.
d) Mislim da je
riječ o simbolici u kojoj su božji anđeli upravo ti koji mogu i koji silaze na
zemlju, i koji vrše ulogu božjih glasnika i sredstvo kojim Bog djeluje.
Postanak 16;7-13
„7 Anđeo Jahvin nađe je kod izvora u
pustinji - uz vrelo što je na putu prema Šuru - 8 pa je zapita:
"Hagaro, sluškinjo Sarajina, odakle dolaziš i kamo ideš?" "Bježim,
evo, od svoje gospodarice Saraje", odgovori ona. 9 Nato joj
anđeo Jahvin reče: "Vrati se svojoj gospodarici i pokori joj se!" 10
Još joj reče anđeo Jahvin: "Tvoje ću potomstvo silno umnožiti; od mnoštva
se neće moći ni prebrojiti." 11 Dalje joj je anđeo Jahvin
rekao: "Gle, zanijela si i rodit ćeš sina. Nadjeni mu ime Jišmael, jer
Jahve ču jad tvoj. 12 On će biti kao divlje magare: ruka će se
njegova dizati na svakoga i svačija ruka na njega; i pred licem sve mu braće on
će stan sebi podići." 13 A Jahvu koji joj govoraše nazva:
"Ti si El Roi - Svevid Bog", jer - reče ona - "vidjeh Boga i
nakon viđenja - još živim!"
a) Da li je Jahve
osobno govorio Hagari? Očito ne, jer retci 7, 9, 10, 11 jasno govore da je riječ
o Jahvinu anđelu a ne Jahvi.
b) Ako se
inzistira na tome da je riječ o Jahvi osobno, neminovno slijedi iz toga
zaključak da je Jahve po svojoj naravi anđeo. Inače, koji je smisao da Jahve
bude glasnik samom sebi?
c) Da li je ovdje
riječ o predinkarniranom Kristu? Moguće, ali nemamo dokaza da je to istina. Zašto
trinitarijanci misle da je "anđeo Gospodnji/Jahvin" Isus? Iz
jednostavnog razloga jer se traži dokaz da se Isus spominje u SZ-u. Pri čemu se
nagađa da Isus mora biti "anđeo Jahvin" jer se čini da je taj anđeo
iznad ostalih anđela, razdvojen je od Jahve, govori sa autoritetom kao da
je Bog, oslovljen je kao Bog, i nakon Isusovog rođenja se naizgled više ne
spominje u NZ-u. No, kako Biblija jasno pokazuje da je riječ o anđelu, i to
nije upitno, odgovor leži u tome da taj (i drugi) anđeli imaju Jahvine ovlasti
na sebi i predstavljaju samog Jahvu.
Agent (Heb. Shaliah): The main point of the Jewish law of agency is expressed in the dictum, “a person’s agent is regarded as the person himself” (Ned. 72b; Kidd. 41b). Therefore any act committed by a duly appointed agent is regarded as having been committed by the principal, who therefore bears full responsibility for it with consequent complete absence of liability on the part of the agent
Heb 2;1,2 "
Zato treba da mi svesrdnije prianjamo uz ono što čusmo da ne bismo
promašili. Jer ako je riječ po anđelima izrečena bila čvrsta te je svaki
prijestup i neposluh primio pravednu plaću"
Zašto Hagara zove
anđela Bogom? Očito jer je anđeo Božji glasnogovornik koji je govorio Božje
objavu Hagari. Poput Su 6;22 "Tada Gideon vidje da je to bio Anđeo Jahvin
i reče; ...Anđela Jahvina vidjeh licem u lice!" Gideon iskazuje da je
vidio anđela a ne Jahvu, iako redak 6;14 govori "Jahve se tada okrenu
prema njemu i reče mu..." 2.Sam 24;16 pokazuje da Jahve daje zapovijedi
svome anđelu; "Kad je anđeo pružio ruku da ga uništi, sažali se Jahve zbog
toga zla, pa reče anđelu; ‘Enough! Withdraw your hand.’
I još jedan
primjer koji razlikuje anđela Jahvinog i Jahvu i koji pokazuje ograničeno
znanje anđela Jahvinog;
Zah 1;11-13 «11
Oni se obratiše anđelu Jahvinu, koji stajaše među mirtama, i kazaše:
"Obišli smo zemlju, i gle: sva zemlja počiva i miruje." 12
Tada progovori anđeo Jahvin i reče: "Jahve nad Vojskama, kada ćeš se već
jednom smilovati Jeruzalemu i gradovima judejskim na koje se već sedamdeset
godina ljuto srdiš?" 13 A Jahve anđelu koji je govorio sa mnom
odgovori utješnim riječima."
Isto tako, Isus
nigdje u NZ-u ne otkriva da je upravo on "taj" anđeo Jahvin, niti
sebe ne dovodi u bilo kakvu vezu sa njim. No, čak i da Isus jest "Anđeo
Jahvin" iz SZ-a, to opet ne dokazuje da je Isus iz tog razloga Jahve.
Da li se anđeo
Jahvin spominje u NZ-u?
Mt 1;20-25 "
20 Dok je on to snovao, gle, anđeo mu se Gospodnji ukaza u snu i reče:
"Josipe, sine Davidov, ne boj se uzeti k sebi Mariju, ženu svoju. Što je u
njoj začeto, doista je od Duha Svetoga. 21 Rodit će sina, a ti ćeš
mu nadjenuti ime Isus jer će on spasiti narod svoj od grijeha njegovih." 22
Sve se to dogodilo da se ispuni što Gospodin reče po proroku: 23
Evo, Djevica će začeti i roditi sina i nadjenut će mu se ime Emanuel - što
znači: S nama Bog! 24 Kad se Josip probudi oda sna, učini kako mu
naredi anđeo Gospodnji: uze k sebi svoju ženu. 25ne upozna je dok ne
rodi sina. I nadjenu mu ime Isus."
Nakon što je Isus
već začet, Anđeo Gospodnji (Jahvin) se ukazao Josipu. Očito Isus nije Anđeo
Gospodnji.
Dj 5;19 "
Ali anđeo Gospodnji noću otvori vrata tamnice, izvede ih i reče:"
Dj 8;26 "
Anđeo se Gospodnji obrati Filipu:..."
Dj 12;7 "
Kad eto: pojavi se anđeo Gospodnji te svjetlost obasja ćeliju. Anđeo
udari Petra u rebra, probudi ga i reče: "Ustaj brzo!" I spadoše mu
verige s ruku."
.........
Da li je anđeo
Jahvin zaista anđeo?
1. Kr 19;5,7
" "...Ali gle, anđeo ga taknu i reče mu;...Ali se anđeo Jahvin javi i
drugi put...i reče..."
Ako je Isus anđeo
Jahvin iz SZ-a, onda je potpuno jasno da shodno tome mora biti ono što taj
izraz neupitno označava, naime, anđeo.
Postanak 18;1,2
„1Jahve
mu se ukaza kod hrasta Mamre dok je on sjedio na ulazu u šator za dnevne žege. 2
Podigavši oči, opazi tri čovjeka gdje stoje nedaleko od njega. Čim ih spazi,
potrča s ulaza šatora njima u susret. Pade ničice na zemlju"
Da li je Jahve
zaista doslovno sišao na zemlju? Ili je riječ o Njegovom anđelu? Ako je Jahvin silazak doslovan, to je očita
proturječnost NZ-i koji jasno kaže da Boga nitko nikada nije vidio (Iv 1;18).
Da li je
Abrahamovo klanjanje pokazatelj da je zaista riječ o Jahvi? Očito ne, jer Post
19;1 jasno kaže;
"Ona dva
anđela stignu navečer u Sodomu dok je Lot sjedio na vratima Sodome. Kad ih Lot
ugleda, ustade i pođe im u susret. Nakloni se licem do zemlje",
da se Lot
naklonio dvjema anđelima koji su bili kod Abrahama. Ako se Abrahamovo klanjanje
uzima kao dokaz da je riječ o Jahvi, tada i ta dva anđela moraju biti Jahve jer
im se Lot naklonio, i u tom slučaju je Jahve anđeo, i obrnuto, anđeli su Jahve.
Ili je Lot učinio hulu? No, s obzirom da ga Jahve smatra pravednim, i nema
spomena da je Lot učinio hulu, očito klanjanje nije privilegija koju dobiva
samo Jahve. Naravno, Lot se anđelima nije naklonio jer ih smatra Bogom već iz
poštovanja jer dolaze u ime Jahvino.
No, čak i da je
riječ doslovno o Jahvi, nije li neobično da se neobuhvatljivi Bog mogao
smjestiti u ljudsko tijelo, te čak i sići dolje ("Idem dolje"). Ako
je Jahve dolje, da li to znači da Bog nije više sveprisutan?
Da li je riječ o
inkarniranom Kristu? Nemamo dokaza da je to istina. Možemo samo nagađati. No, s
obzirom da tekst jasno govori o Jahvi, onda to mora biti Jahve, kompletni
trinitaristički Bog, a ne samo jedan Njegov dio.
Ponovljeni zakon 6;4
„Čuj, Izraele! Jahve
je Bog naš, Jahve je jedan!“
Trinitarijanci
tvrde da riječ "jedan" označava "složnu uniju", ili
"prevedeno", "tri osobe u jednom Bogu". No, kao i ostale
njihove tvrdnje, riječ je o nagađanju i izmišljanju.
Riječ "jedan"/"echad" je normalna hebrejska riječ koja označava doslovno i obično "jedan". Ta činjenica se ne može oboriti. Ono što trinitarijanci pokušavaju je da toj običnoj riječi "jedan" daju preneseno/drugo značenje. Nažalost po njihovu teologiju, ne postoji primjer gdje je "echad" prikazan kao "složna zajednica" bilo čega. U smislu da "echad" pokazuje takvu zajednicu. Riječ je strogo i obično "jedan, prvi".
Citat pokazuje da je Bog samo jedan i da je to Jahve i da okolni "bogovi" drugih nacija nisu zapravo istinski Bogovi.
Ne postoji primjer u Bibliji gdje se ovaj citat uzima kao dokaz "tri u jednom" ili se raspravlja o njemu kao nekakvoj "uniji". Naravno, jer je jasno da "echad" označava obično "jedan".
Izlazak 3;14
1. Stari zavjet-Izl 3;14
Egoo
Eimi Ho Oon Ho Oon
egoo eimi
"ehyeh asher ehyeh"
hebrejski jezik nema prezenta
past
present future tenses
However, not all agree that Jesus' I AM
statements are direct claims to Yahweh. This is based primarily on the fact
that the phrase "I AM WHO I AM" can legitimately be translated as
"I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE." This is due to the verb from which the
phrase stems.
Izlazak 22;8,9
Kako je riječ "Elohim" prevedena?
|
AB |
..., the house owner shall
appear before God [the judges as His agents], to find whether he stole his
neighbor's goods. |
|
IV |
..., then the master of the
house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto
his neighbor's goods. |
|
KJV |
..., then the master of the
house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his
hand unto his neighbor's goods. |
|
LBP |
..., then the master of the
house shall be brought to the judges to see whether he had a hand in the
theft of his neighbor's goods. |
|
LXX |
..., the master of the house
shall come forward before God, and shall swear that surely he has not wrought
wickedly in regard of any part of his neighbour's deposit, |
|
NAB |
... the
owner of the house shall be brought to God, to swear that he himself did not
lay hands on his neighbor's property. (verse 7) |
|
NBV |
... the
householder shall be brought before the judges to inquire whether or not he
has laid his hand on his neighbor's goods. |
|
NIV |
..., the owner of the house must
appear before the judges to determine whether he has laid his hands on the
other man's property. |
|
NJPS |
..., the owner of the house shall
depose before God that he has not laid hands on the other's property. (verse 7) |
|
SNB |
... then
the owner of the house be brought near unto Elohim to swear that he hath not
laid his hand on the property of his neighbour. |
|
TEV |
..., the man who was keeping the
valuables is to be brought to the place of worship and there he must take an
oath that he has not stolen the other man's property. |
|
YLR |
..., then the master of the
house hath been brought near unto God, whether he hath not put forth his hand
against the work of his neighbour; |
Izlazak 22;28
Ista stvar.
|
AB |
You shall not revile God [the judges His agents], or esteem lightly or curse a ruler of your people. |
|
IV |
Thou shalt not revile against God, nor curse the ruler of thy people. |
|
KJV |
Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people. |
|
LBP |
You shall not revile the judge nor curse the ruler of your people. |
|
LXX |
Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor speak ill of the ruler of thy people. |
|
NAB |
You shall not revile God, nor
curse a prince of your people. |
|
NBV |
Heap no abuse upon judges and do
not curse a ruler of your people. |
|
NIV |
Do not blaspheme God or curse
the ruler of your people. |
|
NJPS |
You shall not revile God, nor put a curse upon a chieftain among your people. |
|
SNB |
Elohim shalt thou not revile,
and a prince among thy people shalt thou not curse. |
|
TEV |
Do not speak evil of God, and do
not curse a leader of your people. |
|
YLR |
God thou dost not revile, and a prince among thy people thou dost not cause. |
Psalmi 45;6
“Prijestolje je tvoje, Bože, u vijeke vjekova, i pravedno žezlo - žezlo je tvog kraljevstva!!
Citat je citiran
u Heb 1;8 gdje se nalazi i moj komentar o njemu.
Psalmi 110;1
„Riječ Jahvina Gospodinu mojemu:
"Sjedi mi zdesna dok ne položim dušmane za podnožje tvojim nogama!“
Ili u mnogim
Biblijama "Reče Gospodin Gospodinu mojemu;..."
Kako se ovaj
citat citira u NZ-u, trinitarijanci ga koriste kao dokaz da je Isus jedan od
Gospodina/Gospode koji čine Jahvu, tj. Isus je Adonai iz SZ-a.
Nažalost po njih,
ništa nije dalje od istine.
a) Citat ne
govori o dva Gospodina već o Jahvi i Gospodinu
b) Citat jasno
razlikuje Jahvu i Gospodina kojem se Jahve obraća. Samim time, taj drugi
"Gospodin" nije Jahve.
c) Riječ
upotrebljena za drugog Gospodina nije Adonai već Adoni. Adonai se upotrebljava
gotovo isključivo za Boga, uz rijetke izuzetke gdje je primjenjen na ljude čiji
je status time uzdignut, ali i dalje nije riječ o Bogu, Adoni se upotrebljava
isključivo za ljude (i anđele). Nikad za Boga.
Pimjeri gdje se
pojavljuje "adoni", (na eng.);
Gen. 23:6, 11,15; 24:12(2x), 14, 18, 27(3x), 35, 36, 37, 39, 42, 44, 48(2x), 49, 65; 31:35; 33:8, 13, 14(2x), 15; 39:8; 42:10; 43:20; 44:5, 7, 18(2x), 19, 20, 22, 24; 47:18(2x), 25; Exod. 21:5; 32:22; Num. 11:28; 12:11; 32:25, 27; 36:2; Josh. 5:14; 10:1, 3; Judg. 1:5, 6, 7; 4:18; 6:13; Ruth 2:13; 1 Sam. 1:15, 26(2x); 22:12; 24:8; 25:24, 25(2x), 26(2x), 27, 28, 29, 31, 41; 26:17, 18,19; 29:8; 30:13, 15; 2 Sam. 1:10; 3:21; 9:11; 11:11; 13:32, 33; 14:9, 12, 15, 17(2x), 18,19(2x), 22; 15:15, 21(2x); 16:4, 9; 18:31, 32; 19:19(2x), 20, 26, 27, 30, 35, 37; 24:3, 21, 22; 1 Kings 1:13, 17, 18, 20(2x), 21,24, 27(2x), 31, 36, 37(2x); 2:38; 3:17, 26; 18:7, 10; 20:4; 2 Kings 2:19; 4:16, 28; 5:3, 18, 20, 22; 6:5, 12, 15, 26; 8:5, 12; 10:9; 18:23, 24, 27; 1 Chron. 21:3(2x), 23; 2 Chron. 2:14, 15; Isa. 36:8, 9, 12; Jer. 37:20; 38:9; Dan. 1:10; 10:16, 17(2x), 19; 12:8; Zech. 1:9; 4:4, 5, 13; 6:4.
Izreke 8;23
"Oblikovana sam još od vječnosti, od iskona, prije nastanka zemlje"
Komentar;
Krist je Mudrost (1.Kor 1;24), mudrost je oblikovana još od vječnosti, Krist je iz vječnosti i prema tome vječni Bog.
Odgovor;
a) Ako je Krist Mudrost u Izrekama, Krist je tada stvoren jer je mudrost stvorena i prema tome Isus nije Bog;
Iz 8;22 "Jahve me stvori kao počelo svoga djela, kao najraniji od svojih čina, u pradoba"
No, to se dobro slaže sa NZ-om gdje je Isus opisan kao početak Božjeg stvaranja. Prvo stvorenje koje je Jahve stvorio, Njegov Jedinorođeni Sin.
I ovdje je stvaranje direktno vezano uz rođenje;
Redak 22,
"Jahve me stvori" sa retkom 24,25 "Rodih se". Isus je rođen, tj. stvoren.
b) Jahve je
prikazan kao tvorac, za razliku od mudrosti koja je prikazana kao stvorena. Odnos
Boga i Njegovog stvorenja.
c) Tekst jasno
razlikuje Jahvu i djelo Njegovih ruku, Njegovu tvorevinu. Njegova tvorevina
prema tome, nije Bog.
d) Ako je riječ o
Kristu kao najsavršenijem Božjem stvorenju, a ne o samoj presonifikaciji Božje
mudrosti, što je moje mišljenje, citat se dobro slaže sa NZ-om, gdje je Isus
opisan kao netko kroz koga Bog stvara (sredstvo stvaranja) i koji je na taj
način i sam sustvoritelj;
Iz 8;30
"Bila sam kraj Njega (Jahve), kao graditeljica"
I što je
zanimljivo, Mudrost je opisana kao graditeljica, ALI, pokraj Jahve ("kraj
Njega"), dok je Jahve stvarao (retci 26-31). Da, Jahve je sam stvarao, a
Isus je bio pokraj Njega.
e) Mudrost je u
tekstu prikazana kao entitet neovisan i izvan Jahve, što pokazuju; "Jahve
me stvori", "kad je stvarao (On), bila sam nazočna (Mudrost)",
"kad još ne bijaše načinio (On-netko drugi), "Njegove zemlje
(Jahvine)"...
f) Ako je riječ o
personifikaciji, da li to znači da Jahve nije imao oduvijek svoju mudrost, s
obzirom da tekst jasno kaže "Jahve me stvori"?
Nije li
najvjerojatnije da je riječ o Kristu koji je početak i vrhunac Božjeg
stvaranja?
Izaija 7;14
„Zato, sam će vam
Gospodin dati znak: Evo, začet će djevica i roditi sina i nadjenut će mu ime
Emanuel!“
Citiran u Mt 1;23
gdje se nalazi i moj komentar.
Izaija 9;6
„Jer, dijete nam
se rodilo, sina dobismo; na plećima mu je vlast. Ime mu je: Savjetnik divni,
Bog silni, Otac vječni, Knez mironosni.”
a) Otac vječnosti
nije pravilan prijevod. Pravilnije, otac doba, vremena.
b) Ako je Isus
doslovno "Otac", onda je doslovno i Bog Otac, i trojstvo kao takvo
otpada.
c) Riječ je o
simbolici, jer Isus nije niti doslovno Otac bilo kakvog vremena, niti je njegov
Otac.
d) Dijete će
nositi ime ali to nije isto značenje "dijete će biti".
e) "Bog
silni" iliti "el gibbor" znači i "moćni, božanstveni
junak" što Isusu kao Sinu Božjemu itekako odgovara.
f) Ista fraza (u množini) je upotrebljena u Ez 32;21 kao "najhrabriji junaci". NIV bible "“mighty leaders”, “the strong among the mighty” KJV i NASB.
g) Cijeli kontekst govori budućem vremenu, u kojem će biti mir (r.6) i Božje kraljevstvo. Neće
li Isus vladati kao Davidovo obećano sjeme u ime samoga Jahve koji ga je
pomazao? Nije li riječ o
Jahvinom Pomazaniku a ne Jahvi osobno? Ne vlada Jahve već Njegov Pomazanik na
Davidovom prijestolju.
h) Ako citat doslovno govori da će obećano dijete biti Jahve osobno, zašto se nigdje u SZ-u to više ne spominje? Nije li takav citat od najveće važnosti za židove?
"Wonder-Counsellor,
Divine Champion, Father Ever, Captain of Peace." Byington
"A wonder of a counsellor, a divine hero, a
father for all time, a peaceful prince." Moffatt
"in purpose wonderful, in battle God-like...."
New English Bible
"Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty Hero,
Eternal Father...."Revised English Bible
Interestingly, this verse has not been understood by all trinitarians as
a reference to Christ at all, but, rather, to King Hezekiah, the son of
Ahaz; or to Hezekiah initially and Christ finally. Note what some
trinitarians from former years have said regarding this account:
"Hezekiah, who was very unlike his
father Ahaz. This passage
is acknowledged, not only by Christians, but by the Chaldee
interpreter, to relate in the same manner, but in a more
excellent sense, to the Messiah––(Annotationes ad vetus et
Novum Testamentum, by Hugo Grotius, a Dutch Arminian,
1583-1645).
The Jews believe that Isaiah 9:6 was referring to somebody else, other than Jesus. The Book of Isaiah which obviously contains Isaiah 9:6 came 700 before the birth of Jesus. The Jews had absolutely no problem calling somebody who came 700 years before Jesus "El Gibor (Mighty God)". That person's name is Hezekiah. The Jews believe that Isaiah 9:6 is referring to Hezekiah and not Jesus, and they did indeed address Hezekiah as "Mighty God". This proves that many people before Jesus were named even at birth "El Gibor (Mighty God)", just like people were also named "Ezekiel (Strong God)", "Elli (God)", "Gabriel (Strong God)", etc...
The Hebrew for “Mighty God” is (“el”, god) (gibbor, “might” or “mighty”) and has
a broad range of meanings. We see this in the “Brown, Driver and Briggs Hebrew
and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, page 42 on “el”: “applied to men of
might and rank ... mighty heroes Ez 32:21 ... mighty hero (as above) or divine
hero (as respecting the divine majesty Is 9:6 [using Jewish numbering sequence]
… angels ... Y [Ps.] 29:1; 89:7”.
In various translation this phrase is rendered as “a divine hero”, (Moffatt,
“MO”); “God Hero”, (New American Bible, “NAB”); “in battle God-like”, (New
English Bible, “
Izaija 40;3 vezano uz Luka 1;16,17
„Glas viče: "Pripravite Jahvi put kroz pustinju. Poravnajte u stepi stazu Bogu našemu.”
Komentar;
IZAIJA 40,3 "Glas viče: Pripravite Jahvi put krou pustinju. Poravnajte u stepi stazu Bogu našemu.
Sada vidi MATEJ 3,3
"Ovo je uistinu onaj koga je označio prorok Izaija kad
je rekao: Glas jednog koji viče u pustinji: Pripravite put Gospodnji,
poravnajte mu staze"
Jeli iz ova dva stiha se može iščitati da je Isus Jahve,
naravno da može...idemo dalje
Odgovor;
Gospodina i protiv Pomazanika
njegovaSlugu tvoga
Sluge tvoga
Sin Svevišnjegaće Gospodin Bog dati Sin Božji
daje
Sluge mojega koga
podupiremNa njega sam svoga duhaJahve, BogJa,
Jahveu pravdi te pozvahza ruku uzeh; oblikovah te i
postavih te za Savez narodu i svjetlost pucima
podupire
Jahve i Pomazanika njegova
Jahve Gospodinu
mojemu
Izaija 41;4, 43;10,13, 43;25, 46;4
This page refutes those who believe that John's use of 'ego
eimi' by Jesus is to identify him as Jehovah who uses similiar words to
identify himself in Isaiah. It used to be 'fashionable' by Trinitarians to link
Jesus's words at John 8:58 to Exodus 3:14LXX. Few scholars now do that hence
the attempted link with some texts in Isaiah.Where elipses are encountered at
the beginning of the text discussed,
Extract from: Jehovah's Witnesses Defended-An Answer
to Scholars and Critics. G.Stafford, 2nd edition,
2000. Elihu books,
'ANI HU and the LXX of Isaiah
Both Brown and Harner argue that the Old Testament, particularly the book of Isaiah, is the most likely source of influence for the use of ego eimi in the Fourth Gospel. Brown asserts that "Jesus is presented as speaking in the same manner in which Yahweh speaks in Deutero-Isaiah."(117) Harner agrees, saying: "Second Isaiah supplied John with a solenm expression that was eminently suited for expressing the unity of the Son and the Father and that had at the same time a strong connotation of monotheism which also served to express the Christian belief that God continued to be one "' (118)
We will now consider the passages from Isaiah that are considered to have had the greatest influence on the Johannine use of ego eimi. ......
Isaiah 41:4
..... The use of 'ani hu ("I [am] he") in
this verse appears simply to refer back to the One who had just previously been
mentioned, [tetragram](YHWH, "Jehovah"),
while in the LXX ego eimi refers back to the [ego theos](theos,
"God") of the same verse. Thus, 'ani hu is used to identify
the speaker as the One who in this context is spoken of as being active against
the nations, the One who chose Israel as His servant, the covenant God of
Israel, Jehovah. The use of ego eimi in the LXX of Isaiah 41:4,
therefore, is similar to John's use of the phrase in reference to Jesus. It is
used without a predicate, but a predicate is implied or directly expressed in
the context.
This usage is also observable in Isaiah 45:18, where the Hebrew ....(ani YHWH, "I [am] Jehovah") is translated by ego
eimi. Of course, in the LXX the predicate .....(kyrios,
"Lord"), or possibly ho theos (both
titles at times stand in place of the tetragrammaton), is understood per the
context.'(119) In verse 18 the predicates kyrios and ho theos
("God") are in fact supplied by some manuscripts,(120)
and in 45:19 .......(ego eimi ego eimi kyrios) translates ....('ani YHWH,
"I [am] Jehovah").(121)
Isaiah 43:10-13
......In verse 10 'ani hu/ego eimi stands
without an expressed predicate, though it is expressed in the context.(122) The archaic ....('anoki, "I") is
followed by the divine name in verse 11. In verse 12 ...(el,
"God") follows ...(ani).
The end of verse 12 reads, "'You are My witnesses,' says the Lord [Heb:[tetragram] "Jehovah"; LXX: "God" or
"Lord," or possibly the divine name], 'and I am God' [....'ani 'el;
LXX: kurios ho theos, "the Lord God" (some manuscripts add ...ego,
"I," before "Lord")]." (NIV) Verse 13 begins by
saying, "Also, all the time I am the same One [ani hu]." (NWT)(123)
Again the predicate (or 'el, "God") is supplied by the context.
Isaiah 43:25
Brown, though he acknowledges that the Hebrew and LXX translation can bear the meaning reflected in the RSV translation, nonetheless believes this verse may also be understood as, "I am 'I AM' who blots out transgressions," a translation which sees the second ego eimi as a name.(124) He also notes that the same may be true of Isaiah 51:12. This would lend support to the view that the Johannine use of ego eimi, in reference to Jesus, is an implication of his divinity. But in Isaiah 45:19 this interpretation is very questionable, "as it requires that what is duplicated is not the verb but the tetragrammaton, which is rendered first by then by [ego eimi] and then by [kurios](125). Davies provides sufficient refutation of Brown's claims:
"Brown insists that the doubling of the 'I am' in the Septuagint translation of Isa. 43:25, 'I, I am he who blots out your transgressions':[ego eimi ego eimi ho exaleiphwn]... means that the second 'I am' is a declaration of the divine name. In other words, God declares, 'I am "I am" (= divine name), who blots out your transgressions.' Were there evidence that elsewhere ,I am' is the divine name, this would be a possible, but not a necessary reading of the Septuagint of Isa. 43:25 (and cf. Isa, 51:12). Without such evidence, however, Brown's suggestion is merely fanciful, an attempt to find later Catholic christological doctrine in the Fourth Gospel. The only evidence from Scripture which he cites in support of his case is the Septuagint of Isa. 52:6, 'Therefore my people should know my name, because I am he, who speaks [ego eimi autos ho lalwn]; I am here ([pareimi]).' Brown interprets 'my name' and 'I am' as parallel expressions which should be identified, but if 'I am' is a name in the second clause, it is impossible to translate, since a verb not a name is required. Lindars rightly rejects Brown's argument as unconvincing (1972: 336). He points out that if Jesus' [ego eimi] in 8:58 is to be understood as a name, the statement should read 'Before Abraham was, I am "I am."' It is better, as in the case of Isa. 52:6, to allow [ego eimi] it's verbal force."(126)
Davies goes on to argue that in John 8:58 (which she
translates, "Before Abraham was, I am he") Jesus words go back to the
start of the discourse, were he stated, "I am the light of the
world." (8:12) Thus, as the light of the world, "Jesus fulfills God's
promise to Abraham, that 'in him all the nations of the earth would be blessed'
(Ge 12:3). He is therefore superior to Abraham. (127)
Isaiah 43:25 identifies God as the One who wipes out transgressions, 51:12
tells us that Jehovah is the One comforting the people, and 52:6 emphasizes
that the people will know God's name because he is the One speaking and who
will thus cause it to happen (compare Eze 20:4).
Isaiah 46:4
......Here Jehovah highlights the fact that unlike the idols of Bel and Nebo, who have not been able to deliver their worshipers, Jehovah is the same One who has been with them "from the belly," (verse 3) and who will continue to be with them until the days of their "grey-headedness." Jehovah emphasizes His identity as the same One who provided escape for the Israelites long ago. (Isa 46:9) Thus, 'ani hu/ego eimi is again used as a means of self-identification. Harner is probably right in suggesting that the second ego eimi in 46:4 (LXX) represents a variant Hebrew reading.(128)
Conclusion
We have seen that the LXX translation of 'ani hu is used in a manner consistent with the use of the same phrase in the Fourth Gospel and the Synoptics: self-identification. This in no way suggests that the identity of the speaker is the same in each case. The identity of the speaker must be determined from the context in which the phrase is used. In the case of the Fourth Gospel, John uses the phrase, in reference to Jesus, in the same manner as the Old Testament does in reference to Jehovah. He also uses it in John 9:9 to identify a blind man whom Jesus healed. Thus, Davies rightly observes:
"[T]he expression functions in these Scriptural examples [that is, Isa 43: 1 0 and Joel 2:27] in exactly the way it functions in Jn 18.5, 8, 6.20 and 9.9, namely, to allow the speaker to identify himself .Of course, the 'self' identified in each instance is different. In the prophetic oracles God identifies himself as God, and in the Fourth Gospel the man bom blind identifies himself as the man bom blind." (129)
Those instances in John's Gospel where simple
self-identification is not intended (Joh 4:26; 8:24, 28, 58, and 13:19), are
completed by a predicate which is either implied or directly stated in the
context. Although this is likely also the case with John 8:58, eimi is
part of an idiom designed to highlight the fact that Jesus' existence extends
from a time before the birth of Abraham, to the present.
While the use of ego eimi in John at times signifies something special,
various examples where God reveals Himself using 'ani hu "do not
provide a basis for interpreting the Johannine use because in all of these
instances it is clear that God is the speaker, 'I am the Lord [Jehovah], and
there is no other.' " (130) The context in
which the statements are made in the Fourth Gospel and in the Synoptics will
not allow for an identification between Jesus and the Speaker in Isaiah,
Jehovah. He is the God of the Messiah, and the One who "sent forth His Son
as Savior of the world." (Mic 5:4; I Jo 4:14) By means of the phrase ego
eimi, Jesus' identity as the promised Messiah is made manifest, and by
accepting him as the Christ we may gain life everlasting in paradise (Isa
11:1-11).
117.Brown, The Gospel According to John(i-xii),537. For a discussion of the Witnesses view concerning the authorship of Isaiah, see "Where is Modern Catholic Scholarship Heading?" Awake 22 March 1973, 18-19; Insight on the Scriptures, vol.1(Brooklyn: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society,1988),1221-1223; "All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial," 2nd.ed. (Brooklyn: Wtachtower Bible and Tract Society,1990),118-119.
Izaija 42;8
"Ja, Jahve mi je ime, svoje slave drugom ne dam, niti časti svoje kipovima."
Komentar;
Božja priroda se nije promijenila jer on uvijek ostaje
isti. Mi se
dakako mijenjamo, ali on nikada.
I zato je Isus Bog, jer nikada Bog iz SZ ne bi dopustio da
pored njega sjedi netko i da prima istu hvalu i slavu pa makar to bio i sam Sin
Božji. Sin Božji je istovremeno i Bog jer ne bi bilo moguće pomiriti ove stvari
koje znamo o ljubomornom Bogu koji „ljubomorno“ želi svu pažnju i slavu samo za
sebe.
Odgovor;
suprotno
od tvoje tvrdnjenekome drugome
Jahve Gospodinu zdesna
postavih te za Savez narodu i svjetlost pucimasvoje slave drugom
ne dam
predana
Boga našega iNjegovoga
i
i
Krist predaje
kraljevstvo Bogu i Ocu da bi se i sam Sin podložio Onomu koji je njemu sve
podložio da Bog bude sve u svemu!!! Krist kraljuje dok ne podloži sve
neprijatelje!
Izl 34,14
Jer ne smiješ se klanjati drugome bogu. Ta Jahve - ime mu
je Ljubomorni - Bog je ljubomoran.
Iz 42,8
Ja, Jahve mi je ime, svoje slave drugom ne dam,…
Kako to onda da kroz cijelu povijest svoju slavu ne želi
dijeliti sa nikime, a sada najednom ju dijeli sa svojim Sinom, ako taj isti Sin
nije kao i Otac?
On i
Otac su jedno, rekao je Isus.
drugim bogovimasavršeno jedno
Izaija 43;11 vezano uz Luka 2;11
„Ja, ja sam
Jahve, osim mene nema spasitelja.“
Komentar;
Jer vi ste mi svjedoci, riječ je Jahvina, i moje sluge koje
sam izabrao, da biste znali i vjerovali i uvidjeli da sam to ja. Prije mene
nijedan bog nije bio načinjen i neće poslije mene biti. (11) Ja, ja sam Jahve,
osim mene nema spasitelja. (12) Ja sam prorekao, spasio i navijestio, i nema
među vama tuđinca! Vi ste mi svjedoci, riječ je Jahvina, a ja sam Bog (13) od
vječnosti - ja jesam!
Nije li Isus spasitelj svijeta?
Odgovor;
poslao Svog
SinauzvisioSpasitelja
Izaija 44;6 vezano uz Otk 1;17
„Ovako govori
kralj Izraelov i otkupitelj njegov, Jahve nad Vojskama: "Ja sam prvi i ja
sam posljednji: osim mene Boga nema.“
Komentar;
Ovako govori kralj Izraelov i otkupitelj njegov, Jahve nad
Vojskama: "Ja sam prvi i ja sam posljednji: osim mene Boga nema. (7) Tko
je kao ja? Nek' ustane i govori, nek' navijesti i nek' mi razloži! Tko je od
vječnosti otkrio što se zbilo? Nek' nam navijesti što će još doći! (8) Ne
plašite se, ne bojte se: nisam li vam to odavna navijestio i otkrio? Vi ste mi
svjedoci: ima li Boga osim mene? Ima li Stijene? Ja ne znam!"
Bog ne zna? Naravno da zna! Tko je Stijena, zaglavni kamen
na kojemu je sve sagrađeno ako nije Isus? Ali ima li Stijene osim Boga? Nema,
jer Isus jeste Bog!
Odgovor;
postavioizabran
Izaija 44;24
„Ovako govori Jahve,
otkupitelj tvoj i tvorac tvoj od utrobe: "Ja sam Jahve koji sam sve
stvorio, koji sam nebesa sam razapeo i učvrstio zemlju bez pomoći ičije.“
Komentar;
Ovako govori Jahve, otkupitelj tvoj i tvorac tvoj od utrobe:
"Ja sam Jahve koji sam sve stvorio, koji sam nebesa sam razapeo i učvrstio
zemlju bez pomoći ičije.
Ako je kroz Isusa i po njemu sve stvoreno, nije li onda to
pomoć Jahvi? Ako je Isus kao i Jahve, onda nema pomoći i ovaj redak je istinit
kao što i treba biti ako je Isus Bog. Ako nije onda ovaj redak ne može biti
istinit jer je Jahve koristio pomoć drugoga koji nije kao on, pa makar se zvao
i Božjim sinom.
postaviopo
kojemu
sam
When we consider the context of Isaiah 44 we recognize that it is contrasting God with the idol gods of the nations. These were not really gods, but as we have elsewhere discussed, they were wood, metal and other materials that the people had formed into their gods. In this proper context the point of God’s statement is that he was the one that created the heavens and the earth, not these false gods who the nations claimed were on par or superior to him. Recognizing the context, when we consider the thought of the creation of the universe and earth, along with other planets, it is easy to see how God’s statement holds true without presenting any issue for Jesus’ role as intermediate agent.
The fact that he used these does not contradict his clear statement, for they too are his own creation and so they prove only to be the means that he uses to bring it about. In that same way, as one of his creation, God uses Jesus. It is not because he has to but because he wants to. As God’s intermediate agent Jesus cannot be counted as the source of creation. He is God’s means of bringing creation about. While Jesus is a person he is just as much one of God’s creation as the impersonal things that God made use of in bringing so many of his creation about.
How then does this relate to the text? We must remember that the text is dealing with competing gods. They are gods that were not created by Jehovah, but they are in opposition to him. Their involvement in any sort would be contrary to Jehovah’s statement, and so his point is proper and correct in that he does it by himself, without help from any other, but with it all originating within him alone. We would not say that Jesus “helped” God because all that Jesus did originated in God. Originating in him alone, it does not matter whether or not God made use of his own creation in carrying this out, for even that creation originates within him.[19]
Referencing a lexical gloss from Brown, Driver and Briggs’ Hebrew lexicon it is explained that God’s statement of creating the earth “by himself” when translated into Greek parallels Jesus’ words in John 5:30.[20] This is damaging because while God claims to carry out this action by or “of” himself, Jesus explicitly states that he does “nothing of himself.” If all that Jesus does originates with God and not himself and the creation originates with the God of Isaiah 44:24, Jesus cannot be the God of Isaiah 44:24. If he were this God it would contradict his words in John 5:30 in that he would have done something that originated within him. While a Trinitarian might attempt to limit the force of the John 5:30 to Jesus as a human, nothing within the context gives way to such a limitation.
It is therefore seen that while Christ had a role in creation, Scripture never articulates him as the creator. In fact, he is distinguished repeatedly from the creator, shown to only have served an intermediate role.
We know that Jehovah, was not
really alone at the time of creation because Job 38:6, 7 tells us: "When I
laid the foundation of the earth ... all the sons of God shouted for joy".
The angels shouted for joy when Jehovah, through His Son, "laid the
foundations of the earth".
The use of the term, "alone", "by myself" etc do not
necessarily mean the same thing to those in power, even in the Bible. What do I
mean?
Let us look at Daniel 4:30 and Isaiah 63:3. Daniel 4:30, "The king
reflected and said, 'Is this not
"The king was saying, 'Great Babylon! Imperial palace! Did I not build it alone.' "
"The king spake and said, Is this not
Nebuchadnezzar was not the only person to have built
Isaiah 63:3 says: "I [Jehovah] have trodden the wine press alone, and of
the peoples there was no man with me." Again, it was not Jehovah who
personally punish these people. It was His angel
acting on the Jehovah's authority. (2 Kings 19:35, 36) Did Jehovah personally
chastise the Babylonians or did He use the Medes and Perians to accomplish His
will? (Daniel 5:26-28, 30-31) All these acts were done by Jehovah's authority;
and by His alone.—Ezekiel. 36:33,
36.
Izaija 63;8-9
„8
Reče: "Dosta, oni su narod moj, sinovi koji se neće iznevjeriti!" I
on im posta Spasiteljem u svim njihovim tjeskobama. 9 Nije slao
poslanika ni anđela nego ih je sam spasio. U svojoj ljubavi i samilosti sam ih
je otkupio, podigao ih i nosio u sve dane od davnine.”
već
Izaija 63;10
"Ali se oni odmetnuše, ožalostiše sveti Duh
njegov. Zato im je postao neprijatelj i sam je na njih zavojštio."
Jeremija 17;5
„Ovako govori Jahve: "Proklet čovjek koji se uzdaje u čovjeka, i slabo tijelo smatra svojom mišicom, i čije se srce od Jahve odvraća.“
Komentar;
Isus mora biti Bog jer ako nije Bog, ne možemo se pouzdati u njega.
Odgovor;
Isus nije samo običan čovjek, on je Sin Božji, i dolazi u ime samoga Boga, čije zapovijedi izvršava i čije riječi izgovara i kome Isusova nauka pripada. Pouzdati se u Isusa znači pouzdati se u samoga Boga koji je poslao Isusa.
Izl 14;31; "Narod se poboja Jahve, i povjerova Jahvi i njegovom sluzi Mojsiju." Mojsije je govorio u Božje ime. Mojsije je predstavljao Boga.
Jeremija 23;5,6
"Evo dolaze dani - riječ je Jahvina
- podići ću Davidu izdanak pravedni. On će vladati kao kralj i mudrac i činit će za pravo i pravicu
u zemlji.
U njegove će dane Judeja biti
spašena, i Izrael će živjeti spokojno, i evo imena kojim će ga nazivati; JAHVE,
PRAVDA NAŠA"
Ovdje se očito govori o Davidovom izdanku, a svi znamo da
je tu riječ o Kristu, i evo imena kojim će ga nazivati JAHVE, PRAVDA NAŠA...
Sluga moj pravedni sam se ponudio grijehe mnogih ponese
pravedan
Gospod Jahve dade mi jezik vješt Tko god se od vas Jahve
boji, neka posluša glas Sluge Njegova
ime će gradubiti:
'Jahve je ovdje
A grad će se zvati: 'Jahve, Pravda naša.
žrtvenik
i nazva ga : Jahve mi je stijeg
žrtvenik
Jahvi i nazva ga "Jahve-Mir"
Jeremija 31;31-34
„33 Nego, ovo je Savez
što ću ga sklopiti s domom Izraelovim poslije onih dana - riječ je Jahvina:
Zakon ću svoj staviti u dušu njihovu i upisati ga u njihovo srce. I bit ću Bog
njihov, a oni narod moj.“
"A to nam svjedoči i Duh Sveti. Pošto je naime
izjavio: Ovo je Savez koji ću sklopiti s njima poslije
onog vremena, veli Gospodin:..."
ljudigovorili
napuni se
Mihej 5;2
„A ti, Betleheme
Efrato, najmanji među kneževstvima Judinim, iz tebe će mi izaći onaj koji će
vladati Izraelom; njegov je iskon od davnina, od vječnih vremena.
Što se tiče vječnosti, što prorok Mihej kaže za
Krista...."njegov je iskon od davnina, od vječnih vremena...MIHEJ 5,1
of
Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins [c] are from of old,
from ancient times. [d] "
3 Therefore
until the time when she who is in labor gives birth
and the rest of his brothers return
to join the Israelites.
4 He will stand and shepherd his flock
in the strength of the LORD,
in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God.
And they will live securely, for then his greatness
will reach to the ends of the earth.
I po pojedinim riječima;
Mic 5:2 But thou,
zvati ih braćomBraći ću svojoj ja i djeca koju mi Bog dadebraći
sličan
On će se uspraviti, na pašu izvodit' svoje stado silom
Jahvinom, veličanstvom imena Boga svojega.
Boga njegova
|
AAT |
You, |
|
AB |
Whose going s forth have been from of old, from ancient days -- eternity. |
|
DHB |
whose goings forth are from of old, from the days of eternity. |
|
EBR |
Whose comings forth have been from of old from the days of age-past time. |
|
EVD |
His beginnings are from ancient
times. |
|
GW |
His origins go back to the distant past, to days long ago. |
|
HBME |
Who brought you, long ago, in old times from the East; |
|
HBRV |
whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting. |
|
IB |
and His goings forth have been from old, from the days of eternity. |
|
IV |
whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. |
|
KJV |
whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. |
|
KTC |
Whence comes
he? From the first beginning, from ages untold! |
|
LB |
who is alive from everlasting ages past. |
|
LBP |
whose goings forth have been predicted from of old, from eternity. |
|
LXX |
and his goings forth have been from the beginning, even from eternity. |
|
MNT |
one whose origin is of old, |
|
MRB |
whose goings forth are from old, from ancient days. |
|
NAB |
Whose origin is from of old, |
|
NAS |
His goings forth are from long
ago, |
|
NBV |
His goings forth are from of old, from days of eternity. |
|
NCV |
He comes from very old times, |
|
|
one whose roots are far back in the past, in days gone by. |
|
NIV |
whose origins are from of old, |
|
NJB |
whose origins go back to the distant past, |
|
NJPS |
One whose origin is from of old, |
|
NKJ |
Whose goings forth are from of
old, |
|
NLT |
one whose origins are from the distant past. |
|
NLV |
His coming was planned long ago, from the beginning. |
|
NWT |
whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite. |
|
REB |
one whose origins are far back in the past, in ancient times. |
|
RSV |
whose origin is from of old, |
|
SARV |
whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting. |
|
SBK |
And his origin is from of old, |
|
SGAT |
Whose origins are from of old, |
|
SNB |
whose comings forth have been from of old, from the days of age-past time. |
|
SSBE |
whose origin is from an ancient era, from ages of eternity. |
|
TDB |
whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. |
|
TEV |
whose family line goes back to ancient times. |
|
TJB |
his origin goes back to the distant past, |
|
YLR |
And his comings forth are of old, |
Zaharija 2;10-12
Zechariah 2:10-12 says, “Cry out loudly and rejoice, O
daughter of
Reply: The
problem is solved by looking at the entire verses mentioned as the ones
speaking here are angels:
"Then the angel who spoke with me advanced, and another angel came out to
meet him." Zech. 2:3 NAB
In fact, the "man with a measuring line in his hand" in the same
chapter is also probably an angel also(see NAB
footnote).
As we have seen from the Bible, angels can speak as God,
on behalf of God (see Exodus 3:2, 14, 15).
“That God is pictured as employing a chief agent to deliver his message, to guide the seer, or to bring eschatological deliverance indicates a more sophisticated view of God's operations than would be conveyed if God were portrayed as doing all these jobs himself. But if it seemed more appropriate for God, as king above all kings, to employ his retinue in the execution of his will, nevertheless it is significant that the one who appears is none less than God's chief agent or vizier, the highest-ranking member of the heavenly hierarchy. This was in all likelihood intended to give greater weight to the message or vision conveyed. Further, since the elect were probably expected to see in the seer's experience an indication of their own significance, that God assigned the highest ranking member of the heavenly court to communicate with the seer would have communicated powerfully the special status of the elect.” One God One Lord-Early Christian Devotion and Ancient Jewish Monotheism, Larry W. Hurtado, p. 91
Zaharija 11:10-13
Komentar;
Ovdje se
radi o tome da je Jahve procijenjen za trideset srebrnjaka i to je samo još
jedno od proroštava o Isusu koje poistovjećuje Isusa s
Bogom.
Odgovor;
Zaharija 12;10
„A na dom Davidov
i na Jeruzalemce izlit ću duh milosni i molitveni. I gledat će na onoga koga su
proboli; naricat će nad njim kao nad jedincem, gorko ga oplakivati kao
prvenca.“
"Zechariah 12:10 -God uses the first person ("me") and the third person ("him") to describe Himself as the one who will be pierced. ["]And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplications; and they shall look upon ME whom they have pierced and they shall morn for HIM , as one mourneth for his only so, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." (emphasis theirs). [19]
[19] On Zechariah 12:10, the Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar, informs:
138. The Relative Pronoun…This use of 9[a [asher, phonetically, ah.SHARE] is generally rendered in English by he who, he whom (according to the context [that is if it is the nominative or the objective case]), or that which & c., of sometimes of such of a kind…In Zc 1210 also, instead of the unintelligible 9[! <! *-! [elai eth asher, "to me whom"], we should probably read <[!A-! [el asher, "to him whom"].—pp.444-6 and footnote.
When Zechariah 12:10 is quoted at John 19:37, we find the words "him," "the One," or, "the man." "Me" was not found in the more than 50 translations/versions consulted. The one that was "pierced," "thrust through" and "impaled," was not Jehovah. A.E. Kirkpartick stated: "it is Jehovah who has been thrust through in the Person of His representative."—The Doctrine of the Prophets, p. 472.
This is the Father speaking:
Zechariah 12:10, "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."
Like the passages above show, when someone acts in the name of God, they can be called "God." The Father says that "He" will be pierced, but he is referring to someone who acts in His name. This same passage identifies this someone else as his Son, Jesus Christ, by saying "his only son" (Jesus was God's only begotten Son) and "firstborn" (Jesus was the first born as well).
To demonstrate this concept with another verse, Saul was persecuting believers in Christ by dragging them out of their homes, arresting them, and having them stoned to death (Acts 7:58; 8:1-3; 9:12). Now look at who scripture says was being persecuted:
Acts 9:3-5, "And as he (Saul) journeyed, he came near
Jesus said He was being persecuted, but it was really believers in Christ who were being persecuted. This is because they were acting in the name of Christ, and Christ said that whatever you do to his servants, it's the same as doing it to Him:
Matthew 25:40, "...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
This does not mean that believers in Christ were literally Christ himself. Likewise, our Father said people would pierce Him, but it was really his Son, who was acting in His name, who was pierced. This, too, does not mean His Son was literally the Father.